# كل الذين اتوا قبلى هم سراق ولصوص



## apostle.paul (1 أكتوبر 2011)

*انجيل يوحنا
الاصحاح العاشر
**8 جَمِيعُ الَّذِينَ أَتَوْا قَبْلِي هُمْ سُرَّاقٌ وَلُصُوصٌ، وَلكِنَّ الْخِرَافَ لَمْ تَسْمَعْ لَهُمْ.*
*من المقصودين فى هذا العدد *
*الاجمال قبل التدليل
ان المقصودين هم من ادعوا مسيانتهم قبل يسوع
اليهود انتظروا مسيا واحد فقط
كل من اتى قبل يسوع المسيا الحق واعلن انه المسيا المخلص هو سارق ولص 
لانه يوجد مسيا واحد فقط هو يسوع الكلمة
بالرجوع للنص اليونانى يتتضح الموضوع اكثر
**πάντες ὅσοι ἦλθον πρὸ ἐμοῦ, κλέπται εἰσὶ καὶ λῃσταί· ἀλλ’ οὐκ ἤκουσαν αὐτῶν τὰ πρόβατα
**وخصوصا جملة برو ايموى
كلارك قال انها ممكن ان تترجم بدلا من 
*
*﻿Verse 8﻿. All that ever came before me] Or, as some translate, all that came instead of me, προ εμουhttp://www.arabchurch.com/forums/#_ftn1* ​* http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/#_ftnref1**Clarke, A. (1999). Clarke's Commentary: John (electronic ed.). Logos Library System; Clarke's Commentaries (Jn 10:8). Albany, OR: Ages Software*.


*ويكمل كلارك ويقول.

*
*i.e. all that came as **the Christ, or Messiah, such as Theudas, and Judas the Gaulonite, who are mentioned, ﻿Ac 5:36﻿, ﻿37﻿; and who were indeed no other than thieves, plundering the country wherever they came; and murderers, not only slaying the simple people who resisted them, but leading the multitudes of their followers to the slaughter.http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/#_ftn1* ​* http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/#_ftnref1**Clarke, A. (1999). Clarke's Commentary: John (electronic ed.). Logos Library System; Clarke's Commentaries (Jn 10:8). Albany, OR: Ages Software*.​*
كالفن *
*﻿**8.**﻿ All who came before me. The words πάντες ὅσοιmay be literally rendered, ALL AS MANY AS came before me. They who restrict this expression to Judas the Galilean, and such persons, depart widely, in my opinion, from Christ’s meaning; for he contrasts all false doctrine, in general, with the Gospel, and all false prophets with faithful teachers. Nor would it even be unreasonable to extend this statement to the Gentiles, that all who, from the beginning of the world, have professed to be teachers, and have not labored to gather sheep to Christ, have abused this title for destroying souls. But this does not at all apply to Moses and the Prophets, who had no other object in view than to establish the kingdom of Christ. For it ought to be observed, that a contrast is here made between the words of Christ and those things which are opposed to them. But so far are we from discovering any contradiction between the Law and the doctrine of the Gospel, that the Law is nothing else than a preparation for the Gospel. In short, Christ testifies that all the doctrines, by which the world has been led away from him, are so many deadly plagues; because, apart from him, there is nothing but destruction and horrible confusion. http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/#_ftn1*​ *http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/#_ftnref1**Calvin, J. (1998). Calvin's Commentaries: John (electronic ed.). Logos Library System; Calvin's Commentaries (Jn 10:8). Albany, OR: Ages Software*.



“*I most solemnly assure **you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by faith in me and appointment by me but enters illegitimately, that man is a thief and a robber. Thus, all who came before me are thieves and robbers. But he who enters legitimately is shepherd of the sheep.”*​
*Jesus, as the one and only good shepherd, contrasts himself very sharply with all who had come before him. But what does the preposition before (πρό) mean here? In the New Testament this little word has the following recognized meanings: a. “in front of” (before of place), as in Acts 12:6: “guards before the door”; b. “earlier than” (before of time), as in Matt. 8:29: “Art thou come hither to torment us before the time”; c. “more than,” or “above” (before of preference), as in I Pet. 4:8: “before all things.” Of other meanings that have been ascribed to this word (such as “in the interest of” or even “in the room of” and “in the name of”) there are no undisputed instances in the New Testament.﻿73﻿ By far the most common is meaning b. before of time. In fact, in all other places in which the Fourth Gospel uses this preposition it has that meaning (1:49; 5:7 — where the idea of place seems to blend with that of time —; 11:55; 12:1; 13:1; 13:19; 17:5, 24). It surely is the natural signification also here in 10:8. If the temporal force is not basic here, it must at least be regarded as the resultant meaning. But we cannot even accept the interpretation of all who give the preposition its temporal sense. For example, it would seem to us that the idea that the Lord is referring here to the prophets of the Old Testament period and to John the Baptist, as if these had been thieves and robbers, is hardly worthy of comment. Again, to think in this connection of false Messiahs who had arisen before the beginning of Christ’s ministry is equally unrealistic. The context says nothing about them. Without any question, it would seem to us, Jesus is thinking here of the men who are standing right in front of him as he is speaking, namely, the religious leaders of the people, the members of the Sanhedrin, Sadducees and Pharisees, but especially the latter (see 9:40; 10:19). They were the ones who were trying, by means of intimidation (9:22), to steal the people, and thus to gain honor for themselves in an illegitimate manner. If threats were insufficient, they would use violence. They were, indeed, both thieves and robbers. Moreover, they were already on the scene when Jesus came into the world (see on 3:1). Hence, it is easy to understand why Jesus says that they had come before him. It is also understandable that Jesus says, “are (not were) thieves and robbers.” They had not disappeared, were still present.*​*http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/#_ftn2 *
*73 I cannot agree here with H. E. Dana and J. L. Mantey who, in their excellent work (a little gem for class-room use!) A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament, New York, 1950, pp. 109, 110, ascribe the meaning “in the room of” or “in the name of” to the preposition as used here in 10:8. W. D. Chamberlain, who also wrote a most worth-while book on N.T. Grammar, An Exegetical Grammar of the Greek New Testament, New York, 1941, pp. 127, 128, recognizes only the three meanings which we have given above. (We are not here discussing the meaning of πρό-in composition). With this agrees Gram.N.T., pp. 620–622.* 
*http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/#_ftnref2**Hendriksen, W., & Kistemaker, S. J. (1953-2001). Vol. 1-2: New Testament commentary : Exposition of the Gospel According to John. Accompanying biblical text is author's translation. New Testament Commentary (2:108-109). Grand Rapids: Baker Book House


**الاب متى المسكين يؤكد نفس المفهوم.*





*القس ابراهيم سعيد*



​


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## jawhara (2 أكتوبر 2011)

ومادا عن الاب 
فانتم تقولون باسم الاب و الابن و الروح القدس الاله الواحد
الاب ياتي قبل يسوع
ادن الاب لص و سارق 
ادن ما ردك


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## ROWIS (2 أكتوبر 2011)

jawhara قال:


> ومادا عن الاب
> فانتم تقولون باسم الاب و الابن و الروح القدس الاله الواحد
> الاب ياتي قبل يسوع
> ادن الاب لص و سارق
> ادن ما ردك


* طب بزمتك مش مكسوف من نفسك وانت بتسئل السؤال ده ؟*


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## +GOSPEL OF TRUTH+ (2 أكتوبر 2011)

*معلش يا رويس اصل دا بيسموه الجهل...*​


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## Molka Molkan (2 أكتوبر 2011)

jawhara قال:


> ومادا عن الاب
> فانتم تقولون باسم الاب و الابن و الروح القدس الاله الواحد
> الاب ياتي قبل يسوع
> ادن الاب لص و سارق
> ادن ما ردك



رجاء من الأخ شمس وكل الأخوة ، بحق محبتي لديكم ومحبتكم لدي ، لا تردوا على هذا السؤال ، 

فقط اقتبسوه واستعجبوا منه ....



فهذا الرد يستحق التصوير وضعه في التوقيعات


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## ROWIS (2 أكتوبر 2011)

*انا بصراحة معرفتش ارد اقوله ايه
لا يسعني غير القول "جتها نيله اللي عاوزه خلف، مكنتش جابت منك اتنين ؟"
*


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## ++ كيرلس ++ (2 أكتوبر 2011)

jawhara قال:


> ومادا عن الاب
> فانتم تقولون باسم الاب و الابن و الروح القدس الاله الواحد
> الاب ياتي قبل يسوع
> ادن الاب لص و سارق
> ادن ما ردك



*!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


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## Desperado_3d (2 أكتوبر 2011)

> ومادا عن الاب
> فانتم تقولون باسم الاب و الابن و الروح القدس الاله الواحد
> الاب ياتي قبل يسوع
> ادن الاب لص و سارق
> ادن ما ردك


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## jesus_son012 (2 أكتوبر 2011)

jawhara قال:


> ومادا عن الاب
> فانتم تقولون باسم الاب و الابن و الروح القدس الاله الواحد
> الاب ياتي قبل يسوع
> ادن الاب لص و سارق
> ادن ما ردك



اعزروها يا جماعة الكلام اصله بالانجلش
والكلام اللى بالعربى عملت مشافتهوش


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## !ابن الملك! (2 أكتوبر 2011)

الجهل هو الطريق الى الجهنم
التفتيش والبحث هو الطريق الى الله 

جوهرة .. ليكى الاختيار .
اختارى .. واختيارك الان سيرتب عليه حياة لا تنتهى بعد الموت .. هذة الحياة اللا نهائية ستكون اما فى الجهنم او فى النعيم .
اختارى . وتحملى النتيجة .

المسيح قال (تضلون اذ لا تعرفون الكتب ولا قوة الله )


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## apostle.paul (2 أكتوبر 2011)

*ودا من ايه حساسية يعنى
*


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## Thunder Coptic (3 أكتوبر 2011)

jawhara قال:


> ومادا عن الاب
> فانتم تقولون باسم الاب و الابن و الروح القدس الاله الواحد
> الاب ياتي قبل يسوع
> ادن الاب لص و سارق
> ادن ما ردك




:new6::new6::new6:


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## bob (3 أكتوبر 2011)

jawhara قال:


> ومادا عن الاب
> فانتم تقولون باسم الاب و الابن و الروح القدس الاله الواحد
> الاب ياتي قبل يسوع
> ادن الاب لص و سارق
> ادن ما ردك


*ممممممم يا تري حنرد و نقول ايه !!!!!!!!!
لقد وقعنا في الفخ يا باشا ههههههههههههههه*


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## MAJI (3 أكتوبر 2011)

jawhara قال:


> ومادا عن الاب
> فانتم تقولون باسم الاب و الابن و الروح القدس الاله الواحد
> الاب ياتي قبل يسوع
> ادن الاب لص و سارق
> ادن ما ردك


رأيت هذا الكلام في احد ردود الاخوة(يمكن رويس او مولكا)  وكان ينبه جوهرة عليه وقال لها اضحكتي الناس عليكِ,
وبصراحة  حينها لم افهم كلامها ولم اضحك لكن عندما قرأت مناسبة هذا الكلام ضحكت كثيرا كثيرا 
سامحيني ياجوهرة فانا لا احب الضحك على احد 
لكن كلامك غير معقول ابدا ابدا 
وعلى اي حال شكرا لك اضحكتينا 
ربما لك ثواب عليه في ميزان حسناتك


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## Toni_Thaer (3 أكتوبر 2011)

jawhara قال:


> ومادا عن الاب
> فانتم تقولون باسم الاب و الابن و الروح القدس الاله الواحد
> الاب ياتي قبل يسوع
> ادن الاب لص و سارق
> ادن ما ردك



يلي سماك جوهره ما غلط


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## apostle.paul (8 أكتوبر 2011)

http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105921


http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176370


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## apostle.paul (8 أكتوبر 2011)

*شوفى الموضوع بيتكلم فى ايه واسالى على اساسه اى سؤال اخر ابحثى عنه واقريه والىل مبتفهوش اسالى فيه
اتعلموا النظام يا امة البعير 

*
*﻿Verse 2﻿. A wife of whoredoms] That is, says Newcome, a wife from among the Israelites, who were remarkable for spiritual fornication, or idolatry. God calls himself the husband of Israel; and this chosen nation owed him the fidelity of a wife. See ﻿Ex 34:15﻿; ﻿De 31:16﻿; ﻿Judges 2:17﻿; ﻿Isa 54:5﻿; ﻿Jer 3:14﻿; ﻿31:32﻿; ﻿Eze 16:17﻿; ﻿23:5﻿, ﻿27﻿; ﻿Ho 2:5﻿; ﻿Re 17:1﻿, ﻿2﻿. 
**Clarke, A. (1999). Clarke's Commentary: Hosea (electronic ed.). Logos Library System; Clarke's Commentaries (Ho 1:2). Albany, OR: Ages Software*.​ 


*1:1–3 wife of harlotry: Gomer may have been a common prostitute at the time Hosea married her, or perhaps she had participated in a ritual sexual act as part of the Baal cult. However, it is more likely that the de******ive phrase anticipates what Gomer would become following her marriage to Hosea. children of harlotry: If Gomer was a prostitute when she married Hosea, this could refer to children that Gomer already had and that Hosea adopted at the time of marriage. A more likely possibility is that the title anticipates children born to a mother whose reputation and escapades would make their lineage suspect. Gomer’s marital infidelity is a picture of Israel’s idolatry and unfaithfulness to its covenant with God. *​ *Radmacher, E. D., Allen, R. B., & House, H. W. (1999). Nelson's new illustrated Bible commentary (Ho 1:1-3). Nashville: T. Nelson Publishers*.
.​


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## apostle.paul (8 أكتوبر 2011)

*يرجو الاستاذ روك يمنع تشتيت الموضوع
ويضع قوانين للكشف عن القوى العقلية للاعضاء ونسبة الذكاء
*


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## Cristo Cristo (2 يونيو 2014)

jawhara قال:


> ومادا عن الاب
> فانتم تقولون باسم الاب و الابن و الروح القدس الاله الواحد
> الاب ياتي قبل يسوع
> ادن الاب لص و سارق
> ادن ما ردك



ولو ان الموضوع كان رائع الا اننى ندمت اننى قريته او حتى فكرت اننى اقرا بسبب تعليقك دا :close_tem


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