الرد على شبهة: تيموثاوس الاولى 3: 16 دراسة تحليلية

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باسم يسوع عليك نيومان و للكل



انا بس لفت نظري حاجتين صغيرين جدا رغم اني لا استاذه ولا بفهم ولا حاجه بس برضه قريت حاجتين مهمين اولي قريتهم و هقول رايي فيهم علي الاقل ليا انا ههههههههه

النقطه الاولي




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Smith, Vance (19th century) ­ Pastor of St. Saviour’s Gate Unitarian Church. His participation in the Revision Committee of 1871-1881 evoked bitter controversy, especially with regard to the role he played in removing the word, God, from 1 Timothy 3:16. This apostate worked closely with Westcott and Hort, in controlling the translation of the English Revised Version. p. 37
But Westcott declared that he would leave the committee if Smith was forced out. So Smith was kept on the committee. It is for such reasons that, when the English Revised Version was printed in 1881, 1 Timothy 3:16 was changed from "God was manifest in the flesh" to "who was manifest in the flesh." p. 203


Smith, Vance (19th century) ­ Pastor of St. Saviour’s Gate Unitarian Church.
His participation in the Revision Committee of 1871-1881 evoked bitter controversy, especially with regard to the role he played in removing the word, God, from 1 Timothy 3:16.

و احنا عارفين كلنا مين Unitarian دول و معتقداتهم ايه انهم لا يعتقدون بالوهيه المسيح مطلقا و انه كموسي فقط

و مدي الضغط الي بقي ليهم في امريكا الان


النقطه الثانيه متعلقه باحدي ترجمات قراءه الحذف الي حضرتك حطيتها في وسط ترجمات الحذف


Weymouth)
And, beyond controversy, great is the mystery of our religion-- that Christ appeared in human form, and His claims justified by the Spirit, was seen by angels and proclaimed among Gentile nations, was believed on in the world, and received up again into glory. WE


دي ترجمه سايحه شويه لانها بتقول المسيح ظهر في شكل البشر او الجسد




يعني مرضيه للجميع للحذف و الاثبات



بدون اي تحيز لاي قراءه لان الايام بتثبت اكتر ما هوا الهي و ما هوا غير الهي

و لكن بدون اي تحيز لقراءه الاثبات انا شايفه انه Unitarians في مصلحتهم ايما مصلحه قراءه الحذف لا الاثبات

في مصلحتهم اكثر من اي طرف اخر

و ايضا بدون اي تحيز لفت نظري سطر اخر في البحث



[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]"The minority manu******s disagree as much (or more) among themselves as they do with the majority. We are not judging between two text forms, one representing 90% of the manu******s and the other 10%. Rather we have to judge between 90% and a fraction of 1% (comparing the Majority Text with P75 and B text form for example). Or to take a specific case, in 1 Timothy 3:16, over 300 Greek manu******s read ‘God’ [KJV] . . Greek manu******s read ‘who’ [NIV, NASV, etc.] So we have to judge between 97% and 2% . . - ­Wilbur Pickering, The Identity of the New Testament Text, pp. 114-120, 25, 149, 150, 237.[/FONT]


هل من الاصلح ان نترك تسعون في المئه من المخطوطات المثبته و نذهب وراء عشره في المائه غير مثبته

ام نفعل العكس


و عموما مهما تدخل ال Unitarians لاثبات قراءه الحذف في التراجم فالمعني محرج لهم ايضا ما زال لان من تبرر بين الملائكه و تراءي في الروح و كرز به بين الامم

من هوا هذا سر التقوي الذي ظهر في الجسد غير يسوع ايوجد اخر كرز به بين الامم يا تري و الايات الاخري كلها في الانجيل تقول انه الله الظاهر في الجسد و تحرج ال Unitarians و شهود يهوه


يعني حتي لو فقدت الرساله ككل لاي سبب كان الفكر لسه موجود

و لو حذفناها اصلا من الكتاب و هذا غير وارد الفكر ذاته ايضا موجود

و مما استقي بولس فكره اساساااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااا

من تجربته الشخصيه و ايمانه بيسوع المسيح كباقي التلاميذ

و رسائله الاخري بها نفس المعني

فعدم وجود السطر كله فضلا عن كلمه لن يهدم عقيده لان يوحنا في رسائله و بطرس في كلامه و اخرون كلامهم اثبات لمعني النص مهما حذفت الكلمه


انا امنت و لم اكن قد قراءت ذلك النص بعد....صدقوا او لا تصدقوا لم ابحث اولا في رسائل بولس لانه اتهم كثيرا دورت في البشائر الاربعه و اعمال الرسل فحسب.......


تقبلوا تحيات مؤمنه جديده ما زالت تحبو في الايمان و ليس لها العلم و لكن عندها ملاحظات و لو علي قدها

سلام و نعمه







 

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كلام ليس دقيق

هذه المخطوطات فيها قراءة الذي
*א* A* C* F G 33 (256 l597 ὃς θεὸς) 365 442 1175 2127 l60 l599 syrh(mg) syrpal goth eth

عذرا ، ولكن حيث ان هذه النقطة مثارة في الموضوع هنا ،
يجب الرد عليها هنا في الموضوع هنا ايضا

المخطوطات المختلفة عليها في قراءة ( ثيؤس ) هي المخطوطات اليونانية ، وانت وضعت المخطوطات اليونانية مع المخطوطات من الترجمات الى لغات اخرى غير اليونانية ،وهذا خطأ علمي كبير .

فنحن نناقش النص ( اليوناني ) وقلنا ان المخطوطات المختلف في القراءة حولها هي ( خمس مخطوطات ) فقط ، ومن الطبيعي والبديهي ان نقارن المخطوطات اليونانية بالمخطوطات اليونانية .

المخطوطات اليونانية هي :

A* C* F G *א*

اما باقي المخطوطات المذكورة في الاعتراض فهي مخطوطات لترجمات غير يونانية !!! اي ببساطة انها لا تكتب ( ثيؤس ) .

وهذا الجدول من موقع يهودي معترض وليس مؤيد لقراءة ( ثيؤس ) ومع هذا فقد كان محايدا جدا في ذكر عدد المخطوطات المختلف في قراءة الكلمة مثار البحث .

attachment.php



http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/trinity/verses/1Tim3_16.html


**********
تعقيب : لاحظ في جدول الملاحظات فانه لا يستطيع انكار ان (سكرايفنر - 1626 ) شهد انه قرأ الكلمة انها ( ثيؤس ) ..

وهو ما اشرنا اليه في صلب موضوع البحث بالصفحة الاولى

كانت تظهر فيها الخطوط واضحة في العام 1626 ، حينما اعطيت المخطوطة للمتحف البريطاني ، وحتى وقت ( سكرايفنير S c r i v e n e r) فهو يشهد انه امتحن المخطوطة اكثر من 20 مرة خلال الاعوام المتتالية ، وكانت تظهر فيها بوضوح ان الكلمة هي ( الله ثيؤس ) ولكن مع الزمن فان الخطوط بدأت في البهتان ، وبالكاد ترى ،
 

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1 Timothy 3:16 - GOD was manifest in the flesh ...



"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: GOD WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

This is perhaps the strongest verse in the Holy Bible which clearly proclaims that the Lord Jesus Christ was and is GOD in the flesh. Little wonder that Satan would wish to tamper with this clear testimony of Christ's Godhead.

"GOD was manifest in the flesh" is the reading found in the King James Holy Bible, the NKJV, Spanish Reina Valera, Italian Diodati, German Luther, Tyndale, Geneva, Webster's, Third Millenium Bible, Darby, Young's, Hebrew Names Version, Worldwide English N.T., Portuguese, French and Russian Bibles.

The NIV says: "the mystery of godliness is great; HE appeared in a body..." while the NASB, ESV say: "He who was revealed in the flesh".

It should be pointed out that there is nothing mysterious about a person appearing in a body. You and I have likewise appeared in the flesh, but there is no great mystery or wonder in this. Yet, that GOD was manifest in the flesh is indeed a great wonder and mystery.

The Westcott-Hort text omits the word GOD and actually has a nonsensical, ungrammatical construction, which literally says WHO was manifest in the flesh. If you consult the UBS or Nestle's critical texts on which the nasb, niv, esv, rsv and Jehovah witness New World translations are based, they give a whole lot of totally bogus information about where their false reading comes from.

Out of approximately 260 surviving Greek manu s c r i p t s, all but 2 or 3 read GOD was manifest in the flesh. Dean Burgon, in his book The Revision Revised, completely demolished the arguments for reading "He was manifest in the flesh" as opposed to "GOD was manifest in the flesh". He shows that most of the early church Fathers listed as having omitted "God" actually quoted "God was manifest in the flesh" in their writings. You can find all this ********ed information in the Revision Revised pages 424-520.

Among the witness for the correct reading of GOD was manifest in the flesh are over 99% of all Greek manu s c r i p t s, including Alexandrinus and Sinaiticus correction (there is no 1 & 2 Timothy in Vaticanus), the ancient Gothic, Syriac Harclean and Slavonic versions, and some twenty church Fathers including Hippolytus 235 A.D., Dionysius of Alexandria 264, Didymus 350, Basil the Great 355, Chrysostom died 407, Gregory Bishop of Nazianzus 355, Gregory of Nyssa 370, Cyril of Alexandria 410, Theodoret 420, and John Damascene.

Some of the footnotes found in the modern perversions are so outrageously wrong in their bias to overthrow the text of the KJB that you have to laugh or you will cry. The ASV says: "The word GOD, in place of HE WHO, rests on no sufficient ancient evidence." The NASB, NIV footnotes are equally as absurd. They both say: "Some manu s c r i p t s read GOD." SOME!!??!!. 260 out of 263 is "some"? That is like saying "Some people in the United States are U.S. citizens", or "Some people in China are Chinese."

Even James White, who is strongly anti KJB says in his book, The KJV Controversy, "There is much to be said in defense of the KJV rendering of 1 Timothy 3:16 as "God was manifest in the flesh." In fact, I prefer this reading, and feel that it has more than sufficient support from the Greek manu s c r i p t s. I can agree with the majority of the comments made on the topic long ago by Dean Burgon." Quoted from page 207.

Of course James may "prefer" or "feel" whatever he wants. He has no infallible Bible and "feels and prefers" to correct any version whenever he wants to. He has set up his own mind as being the Final Authority and no bible version is perfect in his view.

The true Holy Bible says that GOD WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH. The fake bibles say "He was revealed in a body". God did not inspire both readings. One is true and exalts Christ to His rightful place as full Deity, and the other diminishes His divine Person. Look at the outright lies and misrepresentations found in the footnotes of the nasb, niv, asv. That should give you a clue as to which Bible is the truth.

Dean Burgon answered this question many years ago. In part he stated, "the onus probandi (burden of proof) rests wholly with those who are for setting aside the Traditional Text in favour of another, entirely dissimilar in character,.....Compromise of any sort between the two conflicting parties, is impossible also; for they simply contradict one another. Codex B and Aleph (Sinaiticus) are either among the purest of manu s c r i p t s, --or else they are among the very foulest. The text of Drs. Westcott and Hort is either the very best which has ever appeared, --or else it is the very worst; the nearest to the sacred Autographs, --or the furthest from them. There is no room for both opinions; and there cannot exist any middle view. (Burgon, Revision Revised)"



Get it from the s c r i p t ures and the s c r i p tures only ... more irrefutable biblical proof JESUS is GOD:

Is. 9:6. "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given (God in the flesh): and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, *The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."
John 1:1. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
John 20:28. "And Thomas answered and said unto him (Jesus), My Lord and my God."
Acts 7:59. "And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."
Acts 20:28. "Feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with His own blood."
Rom. 9:5. "Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen."
Phil. 2:6. "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God"
Col. 1:15. "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature"
Titus 2:13. "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of *the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ"
1 John 5:20 ... "that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."
Rev. 1:6. "And hath made us kings and priests unto God (Jesus) and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."


المصدر :

 

Molka Molkan

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ويل لي إن كنتُ لا اُبشر
1Ti_3:16
TEXT: "He was made apparent in the flesh"
EVIDENCE: S* A* C* G 33 syr(pal) syr(p,h)? cop?
TRANSLATIONS: ASV RSV NASV NIV NEB TEV
RANK: B
-----------------------------------------------------
NOTES: "God was made apparent in the flesh"
EVIDENCE: Se A2 C2 Dc K L P Psi 81 104 614 630 1241 1739 1881 2495 Byz Lect
TRANSLATIONS: KJV ASVn RSVn NASVn NIVn
------------------------------------------------------
NOTES: "Which was made apparent in the flesh"
EVIDENCE: D* lat vg syr(p,h)? cop?
TRANSLATIONS: ASVn RSVn


المصدر :

http://bible.ovc.edu/tc/lay23tim.htm

 
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