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الرسالة: [QUOTE="apostle.paul, post: 3027383, member: 85886"] [b]رد: هل آمن بولس بأن المسيح هو الخالق ؟.ردا على سلفى مدلس وسحقه تحت موطئ قدمى المسيحين[/b] [COLOR="Black"][FONT="Arial Black"][SIZE="5"][SIZE=5][B]يسوع المسيح هو يهوه [/B][RIGHT][FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR=Blue][B]بعد ان ناقشنا ان الابن هو الخالق الذى هو الاله الحق ولا غيره سوف نناقش ان الابن هو نفسه يهوه ومن فكر بولس نفسه [/B][/COLOR][/FONT][FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR=Black][SIZE=5][B]8 وَأَمَّا عَنْ الابْنِ: «كُرْسِيُّكَ يَا أَللهُ إِلَى دَهْرِ الدُّهُورِ. قَضِيبُ اسْتِقَامَةٍ قَضِيبُ مُلْكِكَ.[/B] [B]9 أَحْبَبْتَ الْبِرَّ وَأَبْغَضْتَ الإِثْمَ. مِنْ أَجْلِ ذلِكَ مَسَحَكَ اللهُ إِلهُكَ بِزَيْتِ الابْتِهَاجِ أَكْثَرَ مِنْ شُرَكَائِكَ».[/B] [B]10 [U][COLOR=Blue]وَ[/COLOR][/U] «أَنْتَ يَا رَبُّ فِي الْبَدْءِ أَسَّسْتَ الأَرْضَ، وَالسَّمَاوَاتُ هِيَ عَمَلُ يَدَيْكَ.[/B] [B]11 هِيَ تَبِيدُ وَلكِنْ أَنْتَ تَبْقَى، وَكُلُّهَا كَثَوْبٍ تَبْلَى،[/B] [B]12 وَكَرِدَاءٍ تَطْوِيهَا فَتَتَغَيَّرُ. وَلكِنْ أَنْتَ أَنْتَ، وَسِنُوكَ لَنْ تَفْنَى[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT] [B]فى العددين 8 و9 يقتبس بولس الرسول من المزمور 45 لكى يطبق هذا على المسيا الممسوح من قبل الله الاب واعطاه لقب الوهيم وفى الاعداد 10-12 تكلم عن الابن باعتباره يهوه خالق جميع الاشياء كما تعودنا اولا بنثبت النص نقديا وانه ثابت ولا غبار عليه وبعدين نناقشه لاهوتيا النص من نسخة UBS النقدية ثانيا ولا غبار شبهه نصية عليه [/B] [LEFT][B][FONT=Century Gothic]10[FONT=Gentium] καί,[/FONT][/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Century Gothic] [FONT=Gentium]Σὺ κατ᾽ ἀρχάς, κύριε, τὴν γῆν ἐθεμελίωσας,[/FONT][/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Century Gothic] [FONT=Gentium]καὶ ἔργα τῶν χειρῶν σού εἰσιν οἱ οὐρανοί·[/FONT][/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Century Gothic]11 [FONT=Gentium]αὐτοὶ ἀπολοῦνται, σὺ δὲ διαμένεις,[/FONT][/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Century Gothic] [FONT=Gentium]καὶ πάντες ὡς ἱμάτιον παλαιωθήσονται,[/FONT][/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Century Gothic][URL="http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/#_ftn1"]12[/URL] [FONT=Gentium]καὶ ὡσεὶ περιβόλαιον ἑλίξεις[/FONT][URL="http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/#_ftn2"]3[/URL][FONT=Gentium]αὐτούς,[/FONT][/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Century Gothic] [FONT=Gentium] ὡς ἱμάτιον [/FONT][FONT=Gentium]καὶ[/FONT][URL="http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/#_ftn3"]4[/URL][FONT=Gentium]ἀλλαγήσονται·[/FONT][/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Century Gothic] [FONT=Gentium]σὺ δὲ ὁ αὐτὸς εἶ[/FONT][/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Century Gothic] [FONT=Gentium]καὶ τὰ ἔτη σου οὐκ ἐκλείψουσιν.[/FONT][/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Century Gothic][URL="http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/#_ftn4"]13[/URL][FONT=Gentium] πρὸς τίνα δὲ τῶν ἀγγέλων εἴρηκέν ποτε,[/FONT][/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Century Gothic] [FONT=Gentium]Κάθου ἐκ δεξιῶν μου,[/FONT][/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Century Gothic] [FONT=Gentium]ἕως ἂν θῶ τοὺς ἐχθρούς σου ὑποπόδιον τῶν ποδῶν σου;[/FONT][I][URL="http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/#_ftn5"]f[/URL][/I][/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Century Gothic][URL="http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/#_ftnref1"]12̠[/URL]10-12 [I][FONT=Gentium]Σὺ … ἐκλείψουσιν[/FONT][/I]Ps 102.25-27[/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Century Gothic][URL="http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/#_ftnref2"]3̠[/URL]3 12 [COLOR=#008000]{A}[/COLOR] [I][FONT=Gentium]ἑλίξεις[/FONT][/I][COLOR=#008000]([/COLOR][I]or [/I][I][FONT=Gentium]εἱλίξεις[/FONT][/I][COLOR=#008000])[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000][FONT=LibronixApparatusFont]P[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#008000]46[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]א[/COLOR][COLOR=#008000]2[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]A[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]B[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]D[/COLOR][COLOR=#008000]2[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]Ψ[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]075[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]0150[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]0243[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]6[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]33[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]81[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]104[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]256[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]263[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]365[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]424[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]436[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]459[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]1175[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]1241[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]1319[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]1573[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]1739[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]1852[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]1881[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]1912[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]1962[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]2127[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]2200[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]2464[/COLOR] [I][COLOR=#008000]Byz[/COLOR][/I] [COLOR=#008000][K[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]L[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]P][/COLOR] [I][COLOR=#008000]Lect[/COLOR][/I] [COLOR=#008000]it[/COLOR][COLOR=#008000]ar[/COLOR], [COLOR=#008000]b[/COLOR], [COLOR=#008000]v[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]vg[/COLOR][COLOR=#008000]st[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]syr[/COLOR][COLOR=#008000]p[/COLOR], [COLOR=#008000]h[/COLOR], [COLOR=#008000]pal[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]arm[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]eth[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]geo[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]slav[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]Chrysostom[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]Cyril[/COLOR] // [I][FONT=Gentium]ἀλλάξεις[/FONT][/I][COLOR=#008000]([/COLOR][I]see [/I]Ps 101.27 lxx) [COLOR=#008000]א[/COLOR][COLOR=#008000]*[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]D[/COLOR][COLOR=#008000]*[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]it[/COLOR][COLOR=#008000]comp[/COLOR], [COLOR=#008000]d[/COLOR], [COLOR=#008000]t[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]vg[/COLOR][COLOR=#008000]cl[/COLOR], [COLOR=#008000]ww[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]Athanasius[/COLOR][/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Century Gothic][URL="http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/#_ftnref3"]4̠[/URL]4 12 [COLOR=#008000]{B}[/COLOR] [I][FONT=Gentium]ὡς ἱμάτιον καί[/FONT][/I][COLOR=#008000][FONT=LibronixApparatusFont]P[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#008000]46[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]א[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]A[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]B[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000](D[/COLOR][COLOR=#008000]*[/COLOR] [I]omit [/I][I][FONT=Gentium]καί[/FONT][/I][COLOR=#008000])[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]1739[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000](it[/COLOR][COLOR=#008000]d[/COLOR][COLOR=#008000])[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]vg[/COLOR][COLOR=#008000]mss[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000](syr[/COLOR][COLOR=#008000]pal[/COLOR][COLOR=#008000]ms[/COLOR][COLOR=#008000])[/COLOR] cop[COLOR=#008000]fay[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]arm[/COLOR] // [I][FONT=Gentium]καί[/FONT][/I][COLOR=#008000]([/COLOR][I]see [/I]Ps 101.27 lxx) [COLOR=#008000]D[/COLOR][COLOR=#008000]2[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]Ψ[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]075[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]0150[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]0243[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]6[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]33[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]81[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]104[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]256[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]263[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]365[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]424[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]436[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]459[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]1175[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]1241[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]1319[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]1573[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]1852[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]1881[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]1912[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]1962[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]2127[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]2200[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]2464[/COLOR] [I][COLOR=#008000]Byz[/COLOR][/I] [COLOR=#008000][K[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]L[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]P][/COLOR] [I][COLOR=#008000]Lect[/COLOR][/I] [COLOR=#008000]it[/COLOR][COLOR=#008000]ar[/COLOR], [COLOR=#008000]b[/COLOR], [COLOR=#008000]comp[/COLOR], [COLOR=#008000]t[/COLOR], [COLOR=#008000]v[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]vg[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]syr[/COLOR][COLOR=#008000](p)[/COLOR], [COLOR=#008000]h[/COLOR], [COLOR=#008000](pal[/COLOR][COLOR=#008000]ms[/COLOR][COLOR=#008000])[/COLOR] cop[COLOR=#008000]sa[/COLOR], [COLOR=#008000]bo[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]eth[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]geo[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]slav[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]Athanasius[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]Chrysostom[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]Cyril[/COLOR][/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Century Gothic][URL="http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/#_ftnref4"]13̠[/URL]13 [I][FONT=Gentium]Κάθου … ποδῶν σου[/FONT][/I]Ps 110.1[/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Century Gothic][URL="http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/#_ftnref5"][I]f̠[/I][/URL]f 13 [COLOR=#008000]P:[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]TEV[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]Seg[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]NJB[/COLOR] [COLOR=#008000]TOB[/COLOR][/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Century Gothic]Aland, K., Black, M., Martini, C. M., Metzger, B. M., Wikgren, A., Aland, B., & Karavidopoulos, J. (2000; 2009). [I]The Greek New Testament, Fourth Revised Edition (with apparatus); The Greek New Testament, 4th Revised Edition (with apparatus)[/I] (Heb 1:10-13). Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft; Stuttgart [/FONT][/B][CENTER][B]صور بعض المخطوطات البردية 46 اقدم بردية لرسالة العبرانين وفيها العدد وعلمت على كلمة كاى(و)بداية العدد العاشر وكلمة كريوس(اختصار).[/B] [/CENTER] [/LEFT] [CENTER] [IMG]http://files.arabchurch.com/upload/images2011/431291072.png[/IMG] [B]المخطوطة الفاتيكانية[/B] [IMG]http://files.arabchurch.com/upload/images2011/361128076.png[/IMG] [B]السينائية[/B] [IMG]http://files.arabchurch.com/upload/images2011/1304271545.png[/IMG] [COLOR=Blue][B]السكندرية [IMG]http://files.arabchurch.com/upload/images2011/188822160.png[/IMG] [/B][/COLOR][CENTER][B]وهذا الاقتباس الذى اقتبسه بولس الرسول هو من مزمور 102 الذى فيه يسبح داود يهوه ويوجه له هذة الترنيمة وقد وجه بولس الرسول نفس الترنيمة للمسيح باعتباره يهوه خالق الاكوان [/B][RIGHT][B][COLOR=Blue]النص العبرى للمزمور[/COLOR][/B] [B][FONT=Century Gothic]תְּפִלָּה לְעָנִי כִי־יַעֲטֹף וְלִפְנֵי [COLOR=DarkRed][U]יְהוָה[/U][/COLOR] יִשְׁפֹּךְ שִׂיחֹו׃ יְהוָה שִׁמְעָה תְפִלָּתִי וְשַׁוְעָתִי אֵלֶיךָ תָבֹוא׃[/FONT][/B] [B]المسيا هو يهوه الخالق[/B] [/RIGHT] [/CENTER] [COLOR=Blue][B]اقوال العلماء[/B][/COLOR] [B][FONT=Century Gothic][SIZE=5]The quotations from Psalms continue (Ps 102:25–27). T[U][COLOR=DarkRed]he Son as Creator is emphasized in these verses. As Creator, He possesses a superior position.[/COLOR][/U] The realm of His creation that is stressed is the heavens, which by metonymy could include the angels. The heavens will pass, but the Son will stand. Thou art the same. All creation will change, but not the Son. He is the same yesterday, and today, and for ever [/SIZE][/FONT][/B] [LEFT] [B][FONT=Century Gothic][SIZE=5][I]KJV Bible commentary[/I]. 1997, c1994 (2536). Nashville: Thomas Nelson[/SIZE][/FONT][/B]. [/LEFT] [B][FONT=Century Gothic] [/FONT][/B] [B][COLOR=#000080][FONT=Arial]1:10–[FONT=Century Gothic]12[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Century Gothic] The context of Ps. 102, from which these verses are taken, [U][COLOR=DarkRed]clearly indicates that the “L[/COLOR][/U][U][COLOR=DarkRed]ord” is the One who would appear in the future to Israel and the nations (Ps. 102:12–16). Thus, the psalm can only refer to Jesus, the Second Person of the Trinity, the only One who would become incarnate. Jesus is God become man. The universe will perish[/COLOR][/U] (2 Pet. 3:10–13; Rev. 21:1), but the Son will remain forever. The universe will be changed, but the Son will remain the same (13:8). [/FONT][/B] [LEFT] [B][FONT=Century Gothic]Radmacher, E. D., Allen, R. B., & House, H. W. (1999). [I]Nelson's new illustrated Bible commentary[/I] (Heb 1:10-12). Nashville: T. Nelson Publishers[/FONT][/B]. [/LEFT] . [LEFT][B][FONT=Book Antiqua]1:10 [COLOR=DarkRed][U]The Lord Jesus Christ is the Creator of heaven and earth. This is demonstrated from [/U][/COLOR][COLOR=DarkRed][U]Psalm 102:25–27. In that psalm, the Messiah prays, “O my God … do not take me away” (v. 24[/U][/COLOR][COLOR=DarkRed][U]). This prayer at Gethsemane and Calvary is answered by God the Father, “Of old You laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.”[/U][/COLOR][/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Book Antiqua][U][COLOR=DarkRed]It should be noticed that God here in verse 10 addresses His Son as Lord, that is Jehovah. The conclusion is inescapable: the Jesus of the [URL="http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/#_ftn1"]NT[/URL][/COLOR][/U][U][COLOR=DarkRed] is the Jehovah of the Old[/COLOR][/U].[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [B][FONT=Book Antiqua][URL="http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/#_ftnref1"]NT [/URL]New Testament[/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Book Antiqua]MacDonald, W., & Farstad, A. (1997, c1995). [I]Believer's Bible Commentary : Old and New Testaments[/I] (Heb 1:10). Nashville: Thomas Nelson[/FONT][/B]. [B][/B][FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR=Black][B]Verse 10[/B][B]. [/B][B]And, Thou, Lord] This is an address to the [I]Son[/I] as the [I]Creator[/I], see Heb 1:2; for this is implied in [I]laying the foundation[/I] of the earth. The heavens, which are the work of his hands, point out his infinite wisdom and skill. [/B][/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR=Black][B]Clarke, A. (1999). [I]Clarke's Commentary: Hebrews[/I] (electronic ed.). Logos Library System; Clarke's Commentaries (Heb 1:10). Albany, OR: Ages Software [FONT=Book Antiqua][COLOR=Blue]يسوع المسيح هو يهوه اله اسرائيل [/COLOR][/FONT][/B][/COLOR][/FONT][B][FONT=Book Antiqua][U][COLOR=DarkRed]the Jesus of the [URL="http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3016036#_ftn1"]NT[/URL][/COLOR][/U][U][COLOR=DarkRed] is the Jehovah of the Old[/COLOR][/U][/FONT][/B] .[/CENTER] [/RIGHT] [/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [/QUOTE]

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