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الرسالة: [QUOTE="apostle.paul, post: 2989010, member: 85886"] [COLOR="Black"][FONT="Arial Black"][SIZE="5"][FONT=Comic Sans MS][B][COLOR=Blue][SIZE=5]انجيل يوحنا الاصحاح العاشر [/SIZE][/COLOR][/B][/FONT][FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR=Black][SIZE=5][B]8 جَمِيعُ الَّذِينَ أَتَوْا قَبْلِي هُمْ سُرَّاقٌ وَلُصُوصٌ، وَلكِنَّ الْخِرَافَ لَمْ تَسْمَعْ لَهُمْ.[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT] [B]من المقصودين فى هذا العدد [/B] [B]الاجمال قبل التدليل ان المقصودين هم من ادعوا مسيانتهم قبل يسوع اليهود انتظروا مسيا واحد فقط كل من اتى قبل يسوع المسيا الحق واعلن انه المسيا المخلص هو سارق ولص لانه يوجد مسيا واحد فقط هو يسوع الكلمة بالرجوع للنص اليونانى يتتضح الموضوع اكثر [/B][LEFT][B][FONT=Century Gothic][SIZE=5]πάντες ὅσοι ἦλθον [U][COLOR=DarkRed]πρὸ ἐμοῦ[/COLOR][/U], κλέπται εἰσὶ καὶ λῃσταί· ἀλλ’ οὐκ ἤκουσαν αὐτῶν τὰ πρόβατα [/SIZE][/FONT][/B][RIGHT][FONT=Book Antiqua][B][COLOR=Blue]وخصوصا جملة برو ايموى كلارك قال انها ممكن ان تترجم بدلا من [/COLOR][/B][/FONT] [LEFT][B][FONT=Century Gothic]Verse 8. All that ever came before me] Or, as some translate, [U][COLOR=DarkRed][I]all that came instead of me[/I], [FONT=Gentium]προ εμου[/FONT][/COLOR][/U][URL="http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/#_ftn1"][/URL][/FONT][/B] [/LEFT] [B][FONT=Century Gothic] [URL="http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/#_ftnref1"][/URL][/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Century Gothic]Clarke, A. (1999). [I]Clarke's Commentary: John[/I] (electronic ed.). Logos Library System; Clarke's Commentaries (Jn 10:8). Albany, OR: Ages Software[/FONT][/B]. [COLOR=Blue][B]ويكمل كلارك ويقول. [/B][/COLOR] [LEFT] [B][FONT=Century Gothic]i[U][COLOR=Blue].e. all that came as [/COLOR][/U][/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Century Gothic][U][COLOR=Blue][I]the Christ[/I], or Messiah, such as [I]Theudas[/I], and [I]Judas[/I] the [I]Gaulonite[/I], who are mentioned, Ac 5:36, 37[/COLOR][/U]; and who were indeed no other than [I]thieves[/I], plundering the country wherever they came; and [I]murderers[/I], not only slaying the simple people who resisted them, but leading the multitudes of their followers to the slaughter.[URL="http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/#_ftn1"][/URL][/FONT][/B] [/LEFT] [B][FONT=Century Gothic] [URL="http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/#_ftnref1"][/URL][/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Century Gothic]Clarke, A. (1999). [I]Clarke's Commentary: John[/I] (electronic ed.). Logos Library System; Clarke's Commentaries (Jn 10:8). Albany, OR: Ages Software[/FONT][/B]. [COLOR=Blue][B][/B][/COLOR][/RIGHT] [/LEFT] [B] [COLOR=Blue]كالفن [/COLOR][/B] [LEFT][B][/B][FONT=Century Gothic][B]8.[/B][B][I] All who came before me. [/I]The words [FONT=Gentium]πάντες ὅσοι[/FONT]may be literally rendered, ALL AS MANY AS [I]came before me[/I]. [U][COLOR=DarkRed]They who restrict this expression to Judas the Galilean, and such persons, depart widely, in my opinion, from Christ’s meaning; for he contrasts all false doctrine, in general, with the Gospel, and all false prophets with faithful teachers.[/COLOR][/U] Nor would it even be unreasonable to extend this statement to the Gentiles, that all who, from the beginning of the world, have professed to be teachers, and have not labored to gather [I]sheep [/I]to Christ, have abused this title for destroying souls. But this does not at all apply to Moses and the Prophets, who had no other object in view than to establish the kingdom of Christ. For it ought to be observed, that a contrast is here made between the words of Christ and those things which are opposed to them. But so far are we from discovering any contradiction between the Law and the doctrine of the Gospel, that the Law is nothing else than a preparation for the Gospel. In short, Christ testifies that all the doctrines, by which the world has been led away from him, are so many deadly plagues; because, apart from him, there is nothing but destruction and horrible confusion. [URL="http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/#_ftn1"][/URL][/B][/FONT] [/LEFT] [FONT=Century Gothic][B][URL="http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/#_ftnref1"][/URL][/B][/FONT][FONT=Century Gothic][B]Calvin, J. (1998). [I]Calvin's Commentaries: John[/I] (electronic ed.). Logos Library System; Calvin's Commentaries (Jn 10:8). Albany, OR: Ages Software[/B][/FONT]. [LEFT]“[FONT=Comic Sans MS][B]I most solemnly assure [/B][/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS][B]you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by faith in me and appointment by me but enters illegitimately, that man is a thief and a robber. Thus, all who came before me are thieves and robbers. But he who enters legitimately is shepherd of the sheep.”[/B][/FONT] [/LEFT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS][/FONT] [LEFT][FONT=Comic Sans MS][B]Jesus, as the one and only good shepherd, contrasts himself very sharply with all who had come [I]before[/I] him. But what does the preposition [I]before[/I] ([FONT=Gentium]πρό[/FONT]) mean here? In the New Testament this little word has the following recognized meanings: a. “in front of” ([I]before[/I] of place), as in Acts 12:6: “guards [I]before[/I] the door”; b. “earlier than” ([I]before[/I] of time), as in Matt. 8:29: “Art thou come hither to torment us [I]before[/I] the time”; c. “more than,” or “above” ([I]before[/I] of preference), as in I Pet. 4:8: [I]“before[/I] all things.” Of other meanings that have been ascribed to this word (such as “in the interest of” or even “in the room of” and “in the name of”) there are no undisputed instances in the New Testament.[URL="http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/#_ftn1"]73[/URL] By far the most common is meaning b. [I]before[/I] of time. In fact, in [I]all[/I] other places in which the Fourth Gospel uses this preposition it has that meaning (1:49; 5:7 — where the idea of place seems to blend with that of time —; 11:55; 12:1; 13:1; 13:19; 17:5, 24). It surely is the natural signification also here in 10:8. If the temporal force is not [I]basic[/I] here, it must at least be regarded as the [I]resultant[/I] meaning. But we cannot even accept the interpretation of [I]all[/I] who give the preposition its temporal sense. For example, it would seem to us that the idea that the Lord is referring here to the prophets of the Old Testament period and to John the Baptist, as if these had been thieves and robbers, is hardly worthy of comment. Again, to think in this connection of false Messiahs who had arisen before the beginning of Christ’s ministry is equally unrealistic. The context says nothing about them. Without any question, it would seem to us, Jesus is thinking here of the men who are standing right in front of him as he is speaking, namely, the religious leaders of the people, the members of the Sanhedrin, Sadducees and Pharisees, but especially the latter (see 9:40; 10:19). [I]They[/I] were the ones who were trying, by means of intimidation (9:22), to steal the people, and thus to gain honor for themselves in an illegitimate manner. If threats were insufficient, they would use violence. They were, indeed, both thieves and robbers. Moreover, they were already on the scene when Jesus came into the world (see on 3:1). Hence, it is easy to understand why Jesus says that they had come [I]before[/I] him. It is also understandable that Jesus says, [I]“are[/I] (not [I]were[/I]) thieves and robbers.” They had not disappeared, were still present.[/B][/FONT] [/LEFT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS][B][URL="http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/#_ftn2"][/URL] [/B][/FONT] [LEFT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS][B][URL="http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/#_ftnref1"]73 [/URL]I cannot agree here with H. E. Dana and J. L. Mantey who, in their excellent work (a little gem for class-room use!) [I]A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament[/I], New York, 1950, pp. 109, 110, ascribe the meaning “in the room of” or “in the name of” to the preposition as used here in 10:8. W. D. Chamberlain, who also wrote a most worth-while book on N.T. Grammar, [I]An Exegetical Grammar of the Greek New Testament[/I], New York, 1941, pp. 127, 128, recognizes only the three meanings which we have given above. (We are not here discussing the meaning of [FONT=Gentium]πρό[/FONT]-in composition). With this agrees Gram.N.T., pp. 620–622.[/B][/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS][B][URL="http://www.arabchurch.com/forums/#_ftnref2"][/URL][/B][/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS][B]Hendriksen, W., & Kistemaker, S. J. (1953-2001). [I]Vol. 1-2[/I]: [I]New Testament commentary : Exposition of the Gospel According to John[/I]. Accompanying biblical text is author's translation. New Testament Commentary (2:108-109). Grand Rapids: Baker Book House [COLOR=Blue] [/COLOR][/B][/FONT][RIGHT][COLOR=Blue][B]الاب متى المسكين يؤكد نفس المفهوم.[/B][/COLOR] [CENTER][IMG]http://files.arabchurch.com/upload/images2011/120345500.png[/IMG] [B]القس ابراهيم سعيد[/B] [IMG]http://files.arabchurch.com/upload/images2011/106592149.png[/IMG] [/CENTER] [/RIGHT] [/LEFT][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [/QUOTE]

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