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الرسالة: [QUOTE="NEW_MAN, post: 1855024, member: 990"] [LEFT][SIZE=4][URL]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic/message/3947[/URL][/SIZE] [SIZE=4][/SIZE] [SIZE=4]Messianic_Apologetic] 1 Timothy 3:16-God was manifest in the flesh, textual evidence [/SIZE][/LEFT][SIZE=4] [/SIZE][LEFT][COLOR=#000080][SIZE=4][B]Shalom Messianic_Apologetic, [/B]One of the most important verses for knowing who Messiah is .. [/SIZE][/COLOR][SIZE=4][COLOR=#800080]1 Tim 3:16 (KJB) And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: [B]God was manifest in the flesh[/B], justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into[/COLOR] [/SIZE][SIZE=4][COLOR=#800080]glory. [/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=4][COLOR=#000080]However, look this up in the modern versions, NIV, CJB, NAS etc.. and you lose the incredible aspect .. no longer .. [B]"God was manifest in the flesh" [/B] instead it is simply "he appeared in a body" or something similar... Of course Jesus (he) appeared, he was born, he "showed up" but was He, [/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=4][COLOR=#000080][B]God (Elohim/Theos) manifest in the flesh ... ? [/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=4][COLOR=#000080] .. or was he maybe a regular man "adopted" as Messiah .. or a great prophet ... .. or an angel taking another role, etc... [/COLOR][/SIZE][COLOR=#000080][SIZE=4]So you can see why those with a low Messiahology run from this passage... Going instead with the "modern versions" ... Talk to the JW's, the adoptionists, the "father-onlyists", the biblical unitarians, your ebionites and pseudo-nazarenes, and you shall see, invariably they run from the historic ******ures .... ========== So today we will share excerpts from three websites that help us to know the actual manu****** evidence ........ the details are mostly in the first, purewords.org :-) You will see one example of many of how absurd the idea of the alexandrian textcrits is, throwing away the historic ******ures...... Those of you with a little more background can see how silly the textcrit theories are.. "eg.. Lucian recension", when a passage like this had tons of early evidences in the Early Church Writers and the lectionaries... [/SIZE][SIZE=4][B]And how important it is for us to recognize and use the preserved, inspired Dvar Elohim, the Word of God..... [/B]========================================================== [/SIZE][SIZE=4][B]1 Tim 3:16 GREEK MANU******S EVIDENCE. .Summary from purewords.org [/B]Paul's cursives 252 out of 254 have Theos (God) Lectionary (very early) 29 of 32 have Theos (God) Greek Manu******s 300 of 307 Early Church Writers (many very early) 25 of 26 (my count, from below) [/SIZE][SIZE=4][B]TOTALS 606 Theos (God, Elohim) 13 who, or which.. [/B]================================================================== [/SIZE][/COLOR][URL="http://www.purewords.org/kjb1611/html/obiblios.htm"][SIZE=4][COLOR=#9136ad]http://www.purewords.org/kjb1611/html/obiblios.htm[/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL] [SIZE=4]Manu****** Evidence for Verses Disputed by the Modern Versions Taken from appendix 2, III: O BIBLIOS THE BOOK Allan O'Reilly, 1995 ============= 1 Timothy 3:16 "God" has been altered to "He" or "Who" by RV, Ne, NIV, NKJV marg., RSV, GN, LB, AMP, NASV, NEB, NWT, JB. The DR has "which". The alteration of "God" to "He" or "Who" obviously constitutes an attack on the Deity of Jesus Christ by the modern textual critics. ... Fuller....state that [B]all the early Greek editions of the New Testament (Ximenes, Erasmus, Beza, Stephens-see Berry's Greek text, the Elzevirs) read "God was manifest" [/B]and hence this must have been the reading of the manu******s available to those editors. The wording of their editions is reflected in all [B]the early English translations (Tyndale 1534, Great Bible 1539, Geneva 1557, Bishops' 1568) [/B]except the surviving copies of Wyclif (1380) derived in part from the Vulgate. Moreover, [B]the European versions associated with true Bible believers [/B](Italian (Diodati), French (Osterwald), Spanish (Valera), German (Luther), Portuguese (Almeida)) all concur with the AV1611. However, the 19th and 20th century Greek editions of the New Testament, culminating in those of Westcott and Hort and Nestle, all rejected "God" in 1 Tim. 3:16 in favour of "who." These corrupt texts form the basis for most of the modern translations. According to Burgon, p 443, [B]the only ancient witness in support of "who" is Aleph (4th cent.), while D (6th cent.) has "which."[/B] C (5th cent.) and F and G (9th cent.) are indistinct in this place and their testimony therefore equivocal, while Codex B does not contain 1 Timothy. In addition, Burgon p 99, cites only [B]one cursive copy of Paul's Epistles, designated "Paul 17," as reading "who" [/B]in 1 Tim. 3:16. ("Paul 73," a second copy, was thought to be possibly in agreement with "Paul 17" but Burgon, p 99, states it is actually an abridgment of Ecumenius' citation-see later, which reads "God.") Burgon p 483, states that of the ancient versions, [B]only the Gothic (4th cent.) [/B]unequivocally witnesses to "who." Agreeing with D in exhibiting "which" in 1 Tim. 3:16 are the Old Latin (2nd cent.), Vulgate (4th cent.), Peshitta Syriac (2nd cent.) Coptic and Sahidic (3rd and 4th cent.) and Ethiopic (6/7th cent.) versions. The Armenian and Arabic versions are indeterminate in this place (Burgon, ibid p454). The only fathers in opposition to "God" arc Gelasius of Cyzicus (476 AD), who cites "which" and an unknown author of uncertain date, who also cites "which." The TBS ibid p 8, state that the Latin, Peshitta and other versions may well have been influenced by the erroneous reading in D, of the "Western" family. Later copies of the Peshitta (4th cent.) may have been influenced by the views of Nestorius, who evidently denied that Christ was both God and man. It is probable therefore, that the earliest copies of the Peshitta, now non- extant, in fact read "God," rather than "who." The most ancient Greek uncial in favour of "God" in 1 Tim. 3:16, is Codex A (5th cent.). Burgon (p 432-436) cites in detail the witnesses who attest to the horizontal stroke of "Theta" in "Theos" being clearly visible up to the mid 18th century. The TBS pamphlet provides an excellent Summary. In support of A are uncials K, L and P, ("Mosquensis," "Angelicus" and "Porphyrianus" resp.) all of the 9th century. The extant[B] cursive copies of Paul's letters[/B] number 300, of which 254 (designated "Paul 1" to "Paul 301") contain 1 Tim. 3:16. Of these, [B]no less than 252 read "God,"[/B] in agreement with the AV1611. (The two exceptions, which have already been discussed, are "Paul 17" and "Paul 73," of which the latter is a doubtful witness.) Added to this favourable testimony are [B]29 out of 32 Lectionary[/B] [B]copies from the Eastern Church, reaching back to earliest times[/B] t.e. before Aleph, which support the reading "God." (Burgon, p 478, declares the 3 exceptions to be "Western ********s of suspicious character.") [B]Burgon p 450, 454, 489-90. also cites the Georgian (6th century), Harkleian Syriac (616 AD) and the Slavonic (9th cent.) versions as reading "God."[/B] The fathers in support of the AV1611 are as follows (Burgon, p 486-90): [B]1st Century: Bamabus, Ignatius (90 AD) 2nd Century: Hippolytus (190 AD) 3rd Century: Apostolic Constitutions, Epistle a***ibed to Dionysius of Alexandria (264 AD), Gregory Thaumaturgus [/B]4th Century: Basil the Great (355 AD), Chrysostom (380 AD), Didymus (325 AD), Diodorus (370 AD), Gregory of Nazianzus (355 AD), Gregory of Nyssa (370 AD). "Euthalian" chapter title of I Tim. 3, attesting to "God in the flesh." 5th Century: Anon. citation in works of Athanasius (430 AD), Cyril of Alexandria (410 AD), Euthalius (458 AD), Macedonius 11(496 AD), Theodoret (420 AD) 6th Century: Severus, Bishop of Antioch (512 AD) 8th Century: Epiphanius of Catana (787 AD), John Damascene (730 AD), Theodorus Studita (790 AD) 10th Century: Ecumenius (990 AD) 11th Century: Theophylact (1077 AD) 12th Century: Euthymius (1116 AD). See also Fuller (4) p 110-1, (32) p98, 260 (summarising Burgon's final findings as [B]300 Greek manu******s (uncial, cursive, lectionary), reading "God" in 1 Tim. 3:16, vs. 7 which do not)[/B], Hills (3) p 137-8, Ruckman (31)See also Part 3 for further discussion on the evidence for the AV1611 reading for this verse. =================================================================== [/SIZE][COLOR=#800000][URL="http://sola******ura-tt.org/Bibliologia-Traducoes/VersesVindicatedInTheKJV-RonSmith.htm"][SIZE=4][COLOR=#247cd4]http://sola******ura-tt.org/Bibliologia-Traducoes/VersesVindicatedInTheKJV-RonSmith.htm[/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL] [SIZE=4]AV VERSES VINDICATED by Ron Smith 1 Timothy 3:16 God was manifest in the flesh. All believers ought to be aware that "He who was manifest in the flesh" is a spurious reading. ....... the traditional reading is not peculiar to the AV Bible. It is found in Tyndale's translation, the Geneva Bible, the Great Bible, and the Bishop's Bible. "God" is also found in the major European Bibles of Diotati (Italian), Osterwald (French), Valera (Spanish), Luther (German), Almeida (Portuguese), and many others. [B]The vast majority of existing Greek mss. have the word for God. The ancient versions likewise, e.g. Old Latin, Latin Vulgate, Gothic, and more besides. [/B]Several of the Fathers refer to God manifest in the flesh. A few mss. have the equivalent of "who" or "which". The Codex Alexandricus, held in the British Museum, appears to have been altered at this verse but the scholars who were able to examine it were in agreement that the original text read THEOS, agreeing with the Received Text, God was manifest in the flesh. (See TBS leaflet No.103). ====================================================================== [/SIZE][URL="http://logosresourcepages.org/received.htm"][SIZE=4][COLOR=#247cd4]http://logosresourcepages.org/received.htm[/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL] [SIZE=4]EARLY WITNESSES TO THE RECEIVED TEXT Compiled by Pastor David L. Brown, Ph.D. Again, I assert, that since the reading of early church leaders match the Received or Byzantine text, that this text existed and was in use from a very early time! 1 Timothy 3:16 KJV – "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." This passage is supported by Ignatius (35-116 A.D.) "God was in the flesh." (To the Ephesians 1:1:7), by Hippolytus (170-236 A.D.) "God was manifested in the flesh." (Against the Heresies of Noetus I: 1:17), and Dionysius (3rd cent.) "For God was manifested in the flesh." (Conciliations I: 1:853) [/SIZE][/COLOR][SIZE=4]====================================================== [/SIZE][SIZE=4][COLOR=#0000ff]Shalom, Schmuel[/COLOR] [/SIZE][/LEFT] [/QUOTE]

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